The Top Pool - Transferred

[Julian Grattidge]

Author Topic: Top pool. (Read 311 times)
tanner
NMFF Regular

can anybody help? ive not fished the top pool yet but i have however spent alot of time on the bank just watching the water and trying to get a feel for the place, i like to get a plan worked out in my head before i go on a new water but im having trouble with this one, i just dont know where to start, i like to fish using a small amount of bait being fairly confident a fish will move in on it but i dont know where to place my bait and i dont really want to start looking for features before my session. any little hints will be great.
there was a couple of fellas in the woods with some gear now i didnt see any lines in the water so i cant say they were fishing but are the woods totaly out of bounds? and can i presume that there are woods on either side of the water, so anglers can only fish from the boathouse around to the style?
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Chesh
Global Moderator

woods are out of bounds as of October 1st matey so dont venture over there or you may be shot (ooh eerr)
as for a plan, in my opinion it doesnt work going there and sayingyes im goignto fish this swim. my experiences have been to turn up and have amooch around see fi you can spot anything then when you have chosen your spot apply your thoughts !
this time fo the year it should be quite clear so get up them trees (but be careful) and see what you can see in terms of features etc.. a good pair of polaroids should help you immensly!
i have gotta get a session on their b4 end of year so may venture up next month
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Julian
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The simple truth of the Top Pool is that there are no easy answers; no right or wrong, and no one method or approach that will bank fish. After about nine years on the place, all I can say is to take all the theories and suppositions you may have about the place when you first get on there – and bin them! LOL, that my be a little harsh but in essence this water is a weird one and you’ll need to approach it with a clean sheet. It’s difficult from the outset as you need to understand the water in three phases; from season start to say august – all pads and happiness with little weed. Then August to end of October/early November – a weedy nightmare with difficult presentation. And finally November to March – all pads and weed gone and fishing a clear lake, but only half of it as the woods are closed!
Basically you need to get your head around each of the three phases, as the water goes through dramatic changes in each phase and obviously the movement and characteristics of the fish change along with them. For example, areas where they are in the early part of the season become inaccessible in the second phase as the pond weed takes over and the route of least resistance means patrol routes used during June – August are pretty much ignored until all the weed has gone towards the end of October. But come October/November, the nice pad line that they patrolled all along day and night has now disappeared and the fish are nowhere to be seen, now favouring more prominent winter features. Thus, it can be hard work getting to know the place. There are always going to be exceptions to the rule, but basically you need to treat it as a different water during each of these three phases – and the only way I’ve learnt all this is through years of observations, analysis of results, and trial & error.
Observation is key; years of watching the water and fishing accordingly have given such strange results that if it were not for the fact that a particular tactic actually worked, you would have scarcely believed it possible! The fish are cute, very cute. And to be honest, at times, a little weird!! Yet they are very regimented in their behaviour. In certain areas, certain fish won’t touch a bait, yet in others they will often drop down and pick it up without giving it a second thought – obviously the knack is in finding these areas in which particular fish let their guard down. All I will say is that you’d be surprised, no amazed, at where some of these spots are – it really pays to keep an open mind!
I’ll be honest, you’re coming into the most difficult part now, as part of the water is inaccessible (and they know this) and their time spent in and around the bay becomes less and less, mainly dependant on the amount of pressure (which they don’t react well to) and commotion applied by anglers. That said, they are there for the taking – if it wasn’t a challenge I don’t suppose any of us would be fishing the place. But easy, it aint.
The only tips are to keep everything simple, no fancy rigs or approaches, just common sense. Bait wise, I have found less is always more. There are occasions when the opposite is true, but I’ve found it to be the exception rather than the rule.
Other than that it’s just a case of getting to know the fish, and again this is the hardest time for that as a good chunk of the lake is inaccessible.
There are a few other threads in this section about the Top Pool with some good input from those that fish it so it’s worth having a look at those also. Other than that it’s just a case of getting on and making a start. The bottom weed is still pretty bad in places but the pads are on their way out and the usual method is to start fishing into the gaps the pads leave behind as there is no weed (where the light could not penetrate through the pads). There is still a massive raft of Canadian weed in the bay which will soon start drifting around which can be a pain (might be an idea for a few of us to meet up and drag it out) and another off the Black Hole. But within a few weeks things will start to improve.
The old adage about the fish finding the bait when you fish into weed really does not equate on the Top Pool – yes, on occasion it may work, but by and large we are talking about extremely lazy and clever fish that have seen most things for many years. By that I don’t mean that they don’t move about much – they do, but they *always* plumb for the route of least resistance. By far my best results have come from clear patches where they can actually investigate the offerings before (hopefully) slipping up. Baits and bags just cast into the weed are largely ignored. So my best advice would be to get up some of the climbing trees in the bay and have a good look around for areas they are likely to visit. Also, don’t assume that they visit all the clear spots – they don’t. My observations up there the other week were a perfect example, lots of lovely clear spots off various swims, but the bottom was covered with leaves (and in some cases a old bait) that had not been touched, whereas other areas had all the leaves and detritus swept clear – a sure sign that fish had been visiting on a regular basis. Just be sure not to confuse duck cleaning with fish cleaning.
Hope it helps…
Julian

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tanner
NMFF Regular

Thanks Julian,
i could read your stuff all day, i read parts 1-4 of your carp journals yesterday whilst just sitting next to the boat house, i also found out to my suprise BT had been up one of the trees already....lol.....great idea, scared my self though i got a bit to high.
reading those journals was a good motivator, its my new challenge.
its been a strange season for me, its my first year with sotas and since joining my kit has had a face lift its all been scaled down to the esentials and i proberly do more walking than fishing, god knows how people can can take a barrow full of stuff for an overnighter, but thats my view and each to their own!
when i was on the estate yesterday a couple lads were walking round aswel but it looked like it was their first time, the problem is i mentioned to each of them that the woods are out of bounds from october because of game shooting and they didnt seem to know, this tells me they had not read the rules, im not bothered if someone feels the need to break the rules but in my opinion for the amount of money i spent on my ticket i feel privalidged to be able to fish there at all.
ne way i will post a note on the forum before i go on and ill letu guys know afterwards how i went about my session.
regards
jon


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Gaz
NMFF Super Poster

i have just been reading the journals and saw a cracking picture of "the general" has this fish ever been caught?
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Julian
Administrator
Editor

18 Oct, 2005, 13:57, Gaz wrote:i have just been reading the journals and saw a cracking picture of "the general" has this fish ever been caught?


Hi Gaz,
No, not for a long time. He may have been out in his earlier years but has never been out during my time on the water. The fish has actually got a deformed mouth so it will be an extremely small bait that eventually takes him. That said, he obviously eats well as he’s a right old lump at any time of the year.
Tight Lines…
Julian

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Gaz
NMFF Super Poster

is it seen regularly?
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Julian
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Hi Gaz,
It depends what you class as a ‘confirmed’ sighting. Many people claim to have spotted him, but to be honest, some I speak to would (and do) struggle to tell the difference between a 20lb mirror and a 10lb common in the water, so how on earth they know it’s the big fella is beyond me!
There are a number of fish in there over 25lb, and I suspect many see a big lump and just assume it’s the General. I tend to spot him once or twice a year at most – usually in the same area, but I’ve not seen him so far this year (not that I’ve been on much). It’s the same with the big common, it’s not a fish which shows itself regularly, yet there has been a big influx of new members on the Top Pool this year who all tell me they’ve seen it. One lad actually pointed it out to me from the top shallows peg back in late July when I went up for a quick look around. I quickly climbed the nearest tree and soon identified the fish as the Warrior, who is not only about 5lb lighter, but is also a scattered scaled mirror.
Not saying all of the new lads on are wrong as one or two I’ve spoken to do seem to know their onions, but I’m very wary about so called ‘sightings’. There are a few old school lads whom I know and trust, and we spot both fish a few times between us each year.
I remember a few years back when I came across the General just a few feet from the bank in the most unlikely of swims. I was actually fishing the Black Hole and was walking round to the point swim to bait up the channel with maggots and hemp. I was having a nose in each swim (had the lake to myself) and there he was, right in front of me – bold as brass. I got up a tree that allowed me to get right over him, and continued to hand feed him maggots for about three or four minutes – he took a load of them on the drop before moving off - A quality moment!

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Gaz
NMFF Super Poster

lucky fella sounds like a "passion for angling" moment!!!! would be nice see him on the bank tho!
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Julian
Administrator
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Without a doubt mate. There’s only a couple of the originals I’ve not had and he’s the one I keep going back on for - one day, eh!?
I’d be very interested to get a glimpse of him at the moment, especially with the growth spurt the others have been putting on over the last 18 months, I suspect he’s looking mighty fat!
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Chesh
Global Moderator

fat? i suspect positively mahooosive would be a finer word lol having never seen the general i can only say that if she is any thing like 5 scales... well we maybe looking the next to ppool 30 in some onesnet and probably bigger than 5 scales too
oh for just a top pool carp to grace my tatty old landing net lol
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[Julian Grattidge]

Steve Baker
Global Moderator

Is there any advice that any one would like give me please about fishing Capesthorne Top Pool ? Any advice at all would be greatly apreciated.
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Chesh
Global Moderator

its ******* hard !! (for some)
shallow weedy and full of lurrrvly carps
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Sam
NMFF Mega Poster

julian av you ad any off top pool this season.
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Chesh
Global Moderator

julian has taken 4 this season all off the main lake stalking with worms, he got some pukka pictures of a corking 25lber
he hasnt taken any off the top pool as of yet but that wont be for long, the bloke knows the lake like the back of his hand
legend isnt the word....
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Julian
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Hi Guy's,
Hope you are all well.
Not had any off yet. Getting married in three weeks so time is *extremely* tight. Managed first couple of days but it rained throughout and pushed the fish into the bay where there were already two fishing (I was in Paddock). It can get a bit cramped with more than 5 on the lake, so I went stalking on the Main for most of the time instead, taking 4 good fish to 25lb 4oz.
Kev took a nice 23lb linear off the Black Hole, and Lewis was on solid for the first 9 days, taking 7 fish in total, best a new lake record (well, since the mid-eighties) of 30lb 3oz, a cracking mirror known as Five Scales. Have seen the photos – stunning.
As for advice, it’s difficult to know where to start as I don’t know where you are all at with your fishing. All I will say is this, it’s not a water where you can just turn up and whack out a big fish, like the Swamp for example. No offence is meant to anybody that fishes there, it’s just that you need to have a completely different mindset on the Top Pool. Luck will of course come into it the same as any venue, but you really need to get the basics in specimen fishing right – do those well, and there’s no reason why you shouldn’t put a few on the bank.
To cover a few bases, so to speak;
KEEP QUIET AT ALL TIMES
It’s a very shallow water - 5 feet at deepest, averaging about 3. That twinned with very peaty banks and some swims that are right on top of the water mean that the fish see and hear *everything*. Most of the time they *will* see you before you see them if you are not careful.
NO BRIGHT CLOTHING
Same as above really, the water is very shallow and gin clear – they can see a vast amount out of the water. Turn up in bright t-shirts or tops and you may as well go home (that’s if one of the regulars doesn’t tell you to go home first ).
NO SUDDEN MOVEMENTS
Keep away from the waters edge wherever possible and when baiting up, etc, keep bankside disturbance to a minimum. Keep quiet AND still and they won’t even know you are there – on many occasions I’ve had fish so close to me, I could literally have touched them.
CONSIDER OTHERS
It’s a small water, with only 11 or 12 swims, so don’t crowd one area, especially if other people are already there fishing it – try and spread out on the water a little, so if there are one or two already in the bay, head elsewhere. The more lines in the water the more they spook.
Basics done, it’s a case of learning as you go on. It’s very silty water so *don’t* try and get in anywhere – you will be up to your chest in silt – I’m not kidding. There is only one area (off the point) where it’s firm, so do be careful.
Bait wise, B5 has been the going bait and I’d say at least 80% of the fish over the last two seasons have come out on it. That said, I’m now using something a little different, just to be different, if you know what I mean. Naturals are also good; most of my fish last year were on naturals. Don’t over bait. Light baiting is the key, big beds will simply spook the fish – There’s always an exception to the rule but you have been warned! I once remember seeing one angler’s bed of bait remain in the same spot untouched for almost two weeks.
Get up the trees!! You can see loads on most swims – don’t suddenly rush on, find a swim and whack them out. Top Pool fish are very visible and you should always have a good look around the lake before deciding on a swim as they do move about quite a lot. I usually spend at least 30mins, if not more, looking round before I set up. The more you watch, the quicker you will suss them out.
Fish slack lines – the weed is a killer, trying to fish tight lines or backleads is just asking for trouble. Also, the more taught lines there are, the carp just go into ‘caution’ mode around your bait.
The biggest tip I could give is to use your eyes – watch the fish and where they go. They can be quite regimented in terms of where they travel and the routes that they take to get there. Stealth really is the key to their downfall.
As I say, do all the above right and there is no reason you shouldn’t catch. For more info you can read my Carp Journals at http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/authors/introjulian.htm these will give you good background on swims and fish location – a few lads who are regulars on there now have said they found them very helpful when they started.
If you have any specific questions, just give me a shout, will help wherever I can.

Be Lucky…
Jules
P.S. - Did I mention to keep quiet?

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Steve Baker
Global Moderator

Cheers mate
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ianb
NMFF Super Poster

Hi chaps just registered on the site though have been carping around the northwest for nearly 3 decades.
I rejoined stoke last season but have hardly used the ticket due to fishing a different club water.
Any way my question is, how does the top pool fish in winter when all that weed dies back a touch. Does it shut up shop or is there still a chance of a few bites?
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Julian
Administrator
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Hi Mate,
Welcome on board.
To be honest, it's hard. All the woods are closed from now till next June so you only have half the water to go at. The fish are cute at the best of times, and in winter it can be even harder. Best I've ever done over winter on there is about 3 fish. Did about 15 nights last winter without a bleep!
When they do come out they are worth it, mind. I'm only doing nights on there through winter as I can't spare days to do the Main Lake. If you have days available I'd deffo give the Main Lake a bash - there were 20's off most weeks throughout last winter. Hoping to get a few sessions in on there myself.
Tight Lines...
Julian
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ianb
NMFF Super Poster

Thanks for the reply, much as i expected really. I remember fishing the main pool in winter maybe 10 years ago (before the drain down and removal of fish to the top pool !) and i actually caught more in winter than i did in summer. My old pb which stood for 10 years was caught on a cold February day on the main pool "The mug" at 25lb, a big common which died a few years later.
« Last Edit: 7 Oct, 2005, 12:26 by ianb » Link to Post - Back to Top 213.104.241.134
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Julian
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Quality mate; hope I’m holding something as special come this February!
There are a number of fish pushing on strong at the moment in the Main Lake, there seems to have been a real growth spurt with two new fish doing 30, along with two tone. Have seen an absolute shed-load of mid to upper 20’s this year but have not had the time to go after them. Guess they can keep a little longer, eh!?

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Chesh
Global Moderator

eerr Jules? holding something special this Frebraury?
are we talkign about a picture of 5 scales in full winter colours or your holding an event to mark the impending birth of Junior Jules? where we can have a pre wet the babies head then after the birth wet the bed even more (slightly warmer) throw you in? lol

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ianb
NMFF Super Poster

Tempting fish in the main pool then but i love to fish overnight! I hate getting up early for the day only sessions but I suppose if you want it enough.................
how many carp reckoned to be in the top pool these days, i know they didnt get back all the main pool fish after the drain down?

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[Julian Grattidge]

Hi Ian,

Only just noticed your last question about the stock.

I’d say there around 35-40 fish. There are still a few in from the main lake, once they were put in the top, nobody could catch them.

Crinkle Tail is probably the best known of the ‘travellers’.

[Steve Baker]

Is anyone on the Top Pool this weekend? Will be doing my first session of the year on there starting late on satdy or early on sunday.

Want to be there just in case it throws out a few fish before the close season like it did last year.

[Julian Grattidge]

I think Bigted is planning to go up, not sure of anybody else. Should be good as has been nice and mild over the last few days .

[kevw]

Have got Friday off and looking to do Fri/Sat on there.

[bigted]

yup, i'm on lads!
hopfully see you on there

[kerrwaf]

when is the closed season

[bigted]

end o march pal, not long now

[Steve Baker]

Will see you down there then

I expect a nice brew as soon as i get there. Two sugars for me

Has kev duke been putting any time in this winter? I remember last year when i took a picture of his 20lb mirror which he caught off 'duke's point'

[gaz]

Getting some practice in steve??

[Steve Baker]

I am indeed m8 although i won't need much practice to win our little wager

[gaz]

lol i point that post out to you in december when im drinking the beer you bought me pmsl

[Steve Baker]

pmsl, you wish my friend