Key aminos in chemoreception

[Deano]

After all the latest shennanigans about bait and enzymes etc, I have decided to do a bit of trawling to find out more about the key aminos in chemoreception.

I have found next to nowt... No doubt the papers are out there sitting on some dusty shelf in a Uni library covered in curry and fag ash marks

But I have drawn my own conclusions from a little theory just using a bit of lateral thinking.

Now if anybody knows(maybe Pete B will..if hes still knocking about) am I far off the mark suggesting the below are the keys aminos in chemoreception..

Arginine

Aspartatic acid

Glutamic acid

Histidine

Lysine

Just an educated guess...probably wrong but theres a method in my madness....lol...

Most people probably arnt bothered either...

[Sugarbabe]

For "Key".....read "Essential" ......

Arginine
Histidine
Isoleucine
Leucine
Lysine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Valine

All have to be present for growth to occur....and in specified amounts

Ask Pete about FLAA....and enjoy the ride....

[oliver reed]

Would it be worth a laymans explanation for the folk in the dark (and I include myself to some degree in that there description) as to the differenciation between amino acids and enzymes in an uncomplicated way so your average run of the mill angler can see the merits of looking deeper into the well of all things microscopic?

I'm sure they would appreciate a simplified description of how these attributes come into play in the world of attraction,heck maybe they might pursue it and find the hidden secret enzyme thats more sought after than Osama himself!

Seriously though its great having these debates if you're 'in the know' but to those who just see big words and reach for the nurofen/don't bother to look at the thread due to confusion they are potentially missing out on things that could enlighten or even inspire them into taking things to the next level...

I'd have a crack at a simplified guide but my poor brain is far too pickled with bargain booze's cheapest 'catalyst' to do it justice....

[Sugarbabe]

If you make your bait an "Amino Acid Delivery System"....you will do OK...

[Deano]

Originally Posted by Sugarbabe

For "Key".....read "Essential" ......

Arginine
Histidine
Isoleucine
Leucine
Lysine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Valine

All have to be present for growth to occur....and in specified amounts

Ask Pete about FLAA....and enjoy the ride....

I know about the 'essential' aminos but which ones trigger feeding?
I have also done a bit of research on FLAA as well and something I found was that in many ingredients I think Tryptophan was the limiting amino..not sure if this has any relevance though..lol..

My theory was just based upon the net charge of each amino...just a guess....

[Sugarbabe]

Some of the examples you quote are classed "Non-Essential" because carp
can supply its own requirements.

Free Amino Acids will be actively investigated by carp.....it is one of the
ways it has evolved to stay alive....

A quality fishmeal is a good start to meeting requirements....

[Deano]

Originally Posted by oliver reed

Would it be worth a laymans explanation for the folk in the dark (and I include myself to some degree in that there description) as to the differenciation between amino acids and enzymes in an uncomplicated way so your average run of the mill angler can see the merits of looking deeper into the well of all things microscopic?

I'm sure they would appreciate a simplified description of how these attributes come into play in the world of attraction,heck maybe they might pursue it and find the hidden secret enzyme thats more sought after than Osama himself!

Seriously though its great having these debates if you're 'in the know' but to those who just see big words and reach for the nurofen/don't bother to look at the thread due to confusion they are potentially missing out on things that could enlighten or even inspire them into taking things to the next level...

I'd have a crack at a simplified guide but my poor brain is far too pickled with bargain booze's cheapest 'catalyst' to do it justice....

Sorry Ollie... I just like playing about with baits......aminos are the building blocks of proteins mate.All proteins are made up of a unique sequence of the 20 or so amino acids.An enzyme will recognise certain amino acid sequences in this protein and break the bonds there giving both free aminos in some cases and smaller polypeptides(strings of amino acids).Its certain aminos and maybe polypeptides that carp can detect.


The beauty of an enzyme bait is you can break certain bonds in your ingredients and maybe trigger a feeding response in a carp if you have the right aminos or polypeptides floating about....make sense...

[Sugarbabe]

If you find Amino Acids daunting....you could consider....

Amines
Organic Acids
Betaine
Alcohols
Aldehydes
Nucleotides
Nucleosides
Sugars..........

[oliver reed]

No need to apologize matey,on the contrary I find it interesting if not somewhat in depth,I was just thinking if someone in the know could put it into a format that many 'virgins' would understand and therefore make the thread more appealing to those who aren't so into the subject,the old enzyme one got a bit 'love triangle' as it was above many peoples heads ha ha!

That way the thread might induce a few more replies from folk who have something to add but may feel a bit out of their depth,so to speak.

[Deano]

Originally Posted by Sugarbabe

If you find Amino Acids daunting....you could consider....

Amines
Organic Acids
Betaine
Alcohols
Aldehydes
Nucleotides
Nucleosides
Sugars..........

ha ha....i have even read that maybe

Nucleic acids should be added to that list...

[Deano]

Originally Posted by Sugarbabe

If you make your bait an "Amino Acid Delivery System"....you will do OK...

yeh I fully understand that mate as if you supply all the 'essential' aminos mr carp is a happy chappy as through a bit of amino acid synthesising jiggery pokery he will have all thats required.

It would make sense if he had evolved to recognise maybe just the 'essentials' as thats all he needs.However that might not be the case...he needs fatty acids as well as some of these are 'essential' I believe but Pete says he cant detect these which from an evolutionary stand point doesnt make any sense to me either....

[Sugarbabe]

I note your "Green Giant" logo.......universally sucessful carp bait.

What's its attraction....its a gene called sh2...which codes an enzyme involved in Starch Metabolism...

Sweet.......

[Deano]

Originally Posted by Sugarbabe

I note your "Green Giant" logo.......universally sucessful carp bait.

What's its attraction....its a gene called sh2

Sweet.......

hhhmmm.....you are in the know Sugarbabe...care to divulge the product of this gene?

Even humble sweetcorn has some amino content. So whats the product of this sh2 gene or do I have to find that out all by myself...

It must be a polypeptide as you know the one gene one polypeptide theory dont you...that means it could even be an enzyme...

I'll just have a look around for now....

[Sugarbabe]

See my ammended post........

[Deano]

Its even on wikipedia....not sure of the relevance of it yet...maybe the localization of proteins has something to do with it....it doesnt say its in corn though...lol...


silly me thats the sh2 domain....