enzymes in baits.

[netbustercarp]

sounds like ive opened a can of worms here.the use of slippery elm in your baits greatly aids the digestion process,proteins which are hard to digest become a lot more digestable so therefore the fish gets a lot more nutrition from the bait.nutrabaits addit digest does the same,but slippery elm works just as well.

[mancity]

What is 'slippery elm' mate and who is it from???

[ChrisKnapper]

Nice one Netbuster..

Come on then Pete B, lets here it...

Chris

[netbustercarp]

Originally Posted by mancity

What is 'slippery elm' mate and who is it from???

its a aid for digestion and you can buy it from the chemist.if its tablet form crush
a couple up and add to your eggs

[netbustercarp]

or if you want to get really technical something called trypsin,which is an ingredient in addit digest ::trypsin enzyme that acts to degrade protein ; it is often referred to as a proteolytic enzyme, or proteinase. Trypsin is one of the three principal digestive proteinases, the other two being pepsin and chymotrypsin . In the digestive process, trypsin acts with the other proteinases to break down dietary protein molecules to their component peptides and amino acids. Trypsin continues the process of digestion (begun in the stomach) in the small intestine where a slightly alkaline environment (about p H 8) promotes its maximal enzymatic activity. Trypsin, produced in an inactive form by the pancreas, is remarkably similar in chemical composition and in structure to the other chief pancreatic proteinase, chymotrypsin. Both enzymes also appear to have similar mechanisms of action; residues of histidine and serine are found in the active sites of both. The chief difference between the two molecules seems to be in their specificity, that is, each is active only against the peptide bonds in protein molecules that have carboxyl groups donated by certain amino acids. For trypsin these amino acids are arginine and lysine, for chymotrypsin they are tyrosine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, methionine, and leucine. Trypsin is the most discriminating of all the proteolytic enzymes in terms of the restricted number of chemical bonds that it will attack. Good use of this fact has been made by chemists interested in the determination of the amino acid sequence of proteins; trypsin is widely employed as a reagent for the orderly and unambiguous cleavage of such molecules.

[Deano]

Originally Posted by netbustercarp

or if you want to get really technical something called trypsin,which is an ingredient in addit digest ::trypsin enzyme that acts to degrade protein ; it is often referred to as a proteolytic enzyme, or proteinase. Trypsin is one of the three principal digestive proteinases, the other two being pepsin and chymotrypsin . In the digestive process, trypsin acts with the other proteinases to break down dietary protein molecules to their component peptides and amino acids. Trypsin continues the process of digestion (begun in the stomach) in the small intestine where a slightly alkaline environment (about p H 8) promotes its maximal enzymatic activity. Trypsin, produced in an inactive form by the pancreas, is remarkably similar in chemical composition and in structure to the other chief pancreatic proteinase, chymotrypsin. Both enzymes also appear to have similar mechanisms of action; residues of histidine and serine are found in the active sites of both. The chief difference between the two molecules seems to be in their specificity, that is, each is active only against the peptide bonds in protein molecules that have carboxyl groups donated by certain amino acids. For trypsin these amino acids are arginine and lysine, for chymotrypsin they are tyrosine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, methionine, and leucine. Trypsin is the most discriminating of all the proteolytic enzymes in terms of the restricted number of chemical bonds that it will attack. Good use of this fact has been made by chemists interested in the determination of the amino acid sequence of proteins; trypsin is widely employed as a reagent for the orderly and unambiguous cleavage of such molecules.

Nice try...I wonder what website you clutched that little lot from...lol.... Your little repost my friend has one glaring error its concerning MAMMALIAN enzymes with a working range of probably 20-40 degrees celsius.Now consider the situation boiled baits.Immersed in boiling water for between say 1 and 3 minutes slight problem denatured proteins.The tertiary structure of the enzymes and thus its active site will no longer be useful as the substrate wont fit into the correct place!! Your baits pH will need to be tinkered a little as well in order for the enzyme to work at its optimum.I dare say not all of the enzymes molecules will become denatured but then again consider the next scenario.Boilie sitting on the lake bed temperature ranges between 4 and say 10 degrees celsius optimum working temperature range 20 -40 degrees C slight problem. Plot the Michealis Menton graph and you will probably see a flat line indicating not the most active enzymatic degradation I have ever seen!! Its no good using mammalian enzymes in carp baits they wont work.
The pursuit of enzymes and their application in carp baits has been pursued for some years with less than staggering results the Nutrabaits users even binned their Addit range and I am surprised you can still get them. Now if you really want to pursue enzymes in bait I suggest you find some 'novel' enzymes with either temperature stability or lower optimum ranges. Forget mammalian enzymes and spend some money(which the bait companies probably havent got) and start a screening programme of the bacterias thats where you will find your enzymes.Theres probably enzymes that fit the bill already but ask a biotechnology giant to either synthesise or purify these enzymes for the relatively small carp baits market and you will probably get laughed at I am afraid.If it was for a pharmaceutical product the case would be a different matter as global revenue will probably be in the millions but not for carp baits sorry. If any bodies doing a phD they might just let you conduct a study into in 'The viabilty and merits of adding enzymes into nutritional carp baits using temperature stable enzymes or enzymes with low optimum ranges'. There you go now you have the title you just need to find the funding and the student...sorry I can't oblige I have already spent too much time dossing about and playing in labs

[incognito]

your talents are wasted in that warehouse professor deano lol

[kevw]

Am really getting into this Deano, very interesting indeed. Have read all of the thread with great interest and after careful consideration regarding fish welfare and nutrition am thinking of giving these Enzyme baits a try, would you recommend 15mm or 18mm

[incognito]

Originally Posted by kevw

Am really getting into this Deano, very interesting indeed. Have read all of the thread with great interest and after careful consideration regarding fish welfare and nutrition am thinking of giving these Enzyme baits a try, would you recommend 15mm or 18mm

100kilos of 10mm

[Joephus]

The tricky bit is surely finding one with not 1 but both those attributes, the ability to withstand high temps and to function well at reasonably low temperatures.

Although could you not use one that functioned well at low temperatures in paste type role? Avoiding the high denaturing temperatures?

[Deano]

Originally Posted by kevw

Am really getting into this Deano, very interesting indeed. Have read all of the thread with great interest and after careful consideration regarding fish welfare and nutrition am thinking of giving these Enzyme baits a try, would you recommend 15mm or 18mm

It might be good bait Kev but it wont be due to the enzymes...lol...they do another identical bait called moonfruit I think thats exactly the same minus the enzymes which is a firmer bait.You never know they might have some 'useful' enzymes in the bait but thats what I want to know as my mind is still open!!....

[Deano]

Originally Posted by Joephus

The tricky bit is surely finding one with not 1 but both those attributes, the ability to withstand high temps and to function well at reasonably low temperatures.

Although could you not use one that functioned well at low temperatures in paste type role? Avoiding the high denaturing temperatures?

Good points joe and thats exactly the line that should be pursued but I dont want to give too much away to the bait 'experts'....

[netbustercarp]

Originally Posted by Deano

Nice try...I wonder what website you clutched that little lot from...lol.... Your little repost my friend has one glaring error its concerning MAMMALIAN enzymes with a working range of probably 20-40 degrees celsius.Now consider the situation boiled baits.Immersed in boiling water for between say 1 and 3 minutes slight problem denatured proteins.The tertiary structure of the enzymes and thus its active site will no longer be useful as the substrate wont fit into the correct place!! Your baits pH will need to be tinkered a little as well in order for the enzyme to work at its optimum.I dare say not all of the enzymes molecules will become denatured but then again consider the next scenario.Boilie sitting on the lake bed temperature ranges between 4 and say 10 degrees celsius optimum working temperature range 20 -40 degrees C slight problem. Plot the Michealis Menton graph and you will probably see a flat line indicating not the most active enzymatic degradation I have ever seen!! Its no good using mammalian enzymes in carp baits they wont work.
The pursuit of enzymes and their application in carp baits has been pursued for some years with less than staggering results the Nutrabaits users even binned their Addit range and I am surprised you can still get them. Now if you really want to pursue enzymes in bait I suggest you find some 'novel' enzymes with either temperature stability or lower optimum ranges. Forget mammalian enzymes and spend some money(which the bait companies probably havent got) and start a screening programme of the bacterias thats where you will find your enzymes.Theres probably enzymes that fit the bill already but ask a biotechnology giant to either synthesise or purify these enzymes for the relatively small carp baits market and you will probably get laughed at I am afraid.If it was for a pharmaceutical product the case would be a different matter as global revenue will probably be in the millions but not for carp baits sorry. If any bodies doing a phD they might just let you conduct a study into in 'The viabilty and merits of adding enzymes into nutritional carp baits using temperature stable enzymes or enzymes with low optimum ranges'. There you go now you have the title you just need to find the funding and the student...sorry I can't oblige I have already spent too much time dossing about and playing in labs

mammalian enzymes, you have lost me now!lol

[kevw]

Originally Posted by Deano

It might be good bait Kev but it wont be due to the enzymes...lol...they do another identical bait called moonfruit I think thats exactly the same minus the enzymes which is a firmer bait.You never know they might have some 'useful' enzymes in the bait but thats what I want to know as my mind is still open!!....

Well I do have 5kg of enzyme boilies in my freezer bought recently from a local guy whose bait and advice for me has always been spot on, has apparently been doing ok on a few waters. Be interesting to see if I do better on it than his snail and shell that I've been on for a while now

[netbustercarp]

what about pre digested fishmeal?this must be treated with some kind of enzyme?i know a mate of mine who is into body building.he says the best thing to have after a meal is fresh pineapple juice which is full of digestive enzymes apparantly.so he can absorb more of the protein from his food.