mainline-the cell

[silverbirch]

[quote=SimonS;63506]Why would a a chunk of tuna or pineapple be any more natural than a boilie? It's not as though they fall from lakeside bushes ?

Simon...I am undone....damn fine point...

I'm off to the lake with my tail between my legs, reputation in tatters, to tend my wounds etc, etc.......Haha

Be back about 10ish.

[Deano]

Originally Posted by silverbirch

CC, Question is, if boilies did not exist then would we be catching the same numbers of fish on other possibley less expensive alternative baits...I suspect we would.

also does anyone know/think quality boilies contribute to keeping the fish in good or better condition?

Any other plusses spring to mind?

Its fair of you to question whether or not boilies are good for the fish as it could all just be a huge marketing conspiracy...

There are a few good examples of how boilies and their liberal usage has led to the fish piling on the weight and maintaining good condition although its not to say they cant do this on naturals alone as carp are pretty good at flourishing in the worst environments.
In Jim Shelleys book Gary Bayes talks about bait in detail and he mentions a couple of specific waters which after heavy boilie usage had bait restrictions put into place.Well what happened...well the carp lost weight and condition and some even died...coincidence...I dont know...maybe.
A water I have fished for over a decade used to contain a very good head of 20+ fish which I was lucky enough to catch and if not at least see on the bank.During the mid 90's these fish were in superb condition even though they were knocking 40 years old.During this period the bait(boilies)was going in.
A lot of anglers pulled off the water and the bait going in reduced.The water now has far less 20+ fish in it and I personally think the bait reduction had led to some sort of malnutrition in the fish which led to them dying off. Just a theory but I think it had some bearing.
Its an interesting topic and I think I will still be using the boilies but never leave home without the corn...

[silverbirch]

I think if mass boilie usage were to have any negative affects, then with such massive widespread use for so long now it would have become apparent...high oil pellets are now banned on many commercials, in the interest of fish health...if fishery owners are diligent then they would have picked up similarly on boilies also.


Your theory on the potential dangers of the sudden removal of supply is interesting Deano but could apply to any mass fed item I suppose...I've always been concerned about mass baiting campaigns and it's potential affect on the natural ecology of a lake...but never stopped to consider the affect of it's withdrawl!

It's an irony that rotting excess bait could feed the micro organisms at the base of the food chain and actually stimulate an increase in the naturals present!!

[Deano]

Granted Gary Bayes has a vested interested in boilies and their usage but to me what he said makes perfect sense.If carp have flourished on a plentiful supply of bait notably boilies then to remove what created and sustained the biomass of a lake is obviously going to have ramifications and it seems that these can be fatal.I honestly dont think the removal of many other food sources would have such a profound effect purely and simply based upon the science, boilies are nutritionally sound( except for readymade semos).

The use of boilies I think will definitely increase the net productivity of a lake and enable it to sustain a higher biomass and will certainly enrich/eutrophy the water.

Heavy pellet usage/withdrawal may also have such consequences although I am not sure.As for boilies enabling carp to make heavy sustained weight gains then I will point to a well known controversial water near Telford.Maggots were the in vogue bait a few years ago and the top fish were around low 40's at the time.Now the fish are boilie munchers and many of them have put on a load of weight one nudging the 50 mark.This lake is also heavily supplemented by the owners with a whole host of foodstuffs.For me boilies definitely get the thumbs up

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Deano

Granted Gary Bayes has a vested interested in boilies and their usage but to me what he said makes perfect sense.If carp have flourished on a plentiful supply of bait notably boilies then to remove what created and sustained the biomass of a lake is obviously going to have ramifications and it seems that these can be fatal.I honestly dont think the removal of many other food sources would have such a profound effect purely and simply based upon the science, boilies are nutritionally sound( except for readymade semos).

The use of boilies I think will definitely increase the net productivity of a lake and enable it to sustain a higher biomass and will certainly enrich/eutrophy the water.

Heavy pellet usage/withdrawal may also have such consequences although I am not sure.As for boilies enabling carp to make heavy sustained weight gains then I will point to a well known controversial water near Telford.Maggots were the in vogue bait a few years ago and the top fish were around low 40's at the time.Now the fish are boilie munchers and many of them have put on a load of weight one nudging the 50 mark.This lake is also heavily supplemented by the owners with a whole host of foodstuffs.For me boilies definitely get the thumbs up

quality hnv boilies for me as well mate. an experiment carried out on our syndicate lake 2 yrs ago was as follows. everyone agreed not to fish for 12 months to give the fish a well earned break. the fish in this lake are all old caracter fish with the biggest being about 27lb. we kept the boilies goin in all year even through the winter aprroximately 400 kilos when fishing comenced it made the fishing more difficult asw the fish had put on that much weight they could take it or leave it. with most fish going over 20lb and alot goin high twenties with four or five goin over thirty in just 10 months with one fish putting on 13lb . what was more interesting was that all the old scars were healed one that was blind in one eye for years was all clear and even one with a hole in the dorsal had closed over. i have since unfortanately dropped my ticket to concentrate elswhere and i here that since the boilies have stopped goin in and being replaced with inferia particles and pellets the fish are slowly but surely dropping back down in weight i just hope not too much.

[silverbirch]

[quote=scotty;63624]quality hnv boilies for me as well mate. an experiment carried out on our syndicate lake 2 yrs ago was as follows. everyone agreed not to fish for 12 months to give the fish a well earned break. the fish in this lake are all old caracter fish with the biggest being about 27lb. we kept the boilies goin in all year even through the winter aprroximately 400 kilos when fishing comenced it made the fishing more difficult asw the fish had put on that much weight they could take it or leave it. with most fish going over 20lb and alot goin high twenties with four or five goin over thirty in just 10 months with one fish putting on 13lb . what was more interesting was that all the old scars were healed one that was blind in one eye for years was all clear and even one with a hole in the dorsal had closed over.

Halleluya(spellcheck) Scotty. It's a miracle....I'm giving up Jesus for boilies, the blind can see again..eat boilies and throw down your crutches...praise the lords of HNV...............might start takin a couple a day to cure me bad back............are you using Mainline's Replic8 the one that promotes new cell growth............................hey, only joking mate.

If they are that good I could become a convert!!!

Seriously, as long as they do the fish/ waters ecological balance no harm thats cool...if theres a positive benefit to fish condition, even better.

Anyone else support this theory that boilies can be actually beneficial to the fish?

[Deano]

[quote=silverbirch;63648]

Originally Posted by scotty

quality hnv boilies for me as well mate. an experiment carried out on our syndicate lake 2 yrs ago was as follows. everyone agreed not to fish for 12 months to give the fish a well earned break. the fish in this lake are all old caracter fish with the biggest being about 27lb. we kept the boilies goin in all year even through the winter aprroximately 400 kilos when fishing comenced it made the fishing more difficult asw the fish had put on that much weight they could take it or leave it. with most fish going over 20lb and alot goin high twenties with four or five goin over thirty in just 10 months with one fish putting on 13lb . what was more interesting was that all the old scars were healed one that was blind in one eye for years was all clear and even one with a hole in the dorsal had closed over.

Halleluya(spellcheck) Scotty. It's a miracle....I'm giving up Jesus for boilies, the blind can see again..eat boilies and throw down your crutches...praise the lords of HNV...............might start takin a couple a day to cure me bad back............are you using Mainline's Replic8 the one that promotes new cell growth............................hey, only joking mate.

If they are that good I could become a convert!!!

Seriously, as long as they do the fish/ waters ecological balance no harm thats cool...if theres a positive benefit to fish condition, even better.

Anyone else support this theory that boilies can be actually beneficial to the fish?

Well SB you may or may not be mocking what we are saying but the evidence is clear for even you to see...BOILIES ARE THE BOL**CKS...and anyone who wants to do their bit for the fish should use a good boilie and dont be shy with the freebies...

[silverbirch]

Not knockin Deano......merely joshin...


When in fly fishing mode...a major part of the reward is to catch on a home tied fly...that translate's to a home made boilie in the same fashion...definatley an extra buzz factor gets involved.....Respect.

[Deano]

Originally Posted by silverbirch

Not knockin Deano......merely joshin...


When in fly fishing mode...a major part of the reward is to catch on a home tied fly...that translate's to a home made boilie in the same fashion...definatley an extra buzz factor gets involved.....Respect.

i gathered you were having a bit of banter mate... but seriously get on the boilies mate...just a little and often approach can work a treat...trust me I cant afford to put kilos and kilos in every trip...a pound here and there works wonders.I make my own gear mate and can put you onto some gear at a very good price...try it you might like it...oh you will have to endure the rolling process mind you...

[kevw]

Originally Posted by scotty

quality hnv boilies for me as well mate. an experiment carried out on our syndicate lake 2 yrs ago was as follows. everyone agreed not to fish for 12 months to give the fish a well earned break. the fish in this lake are all old caracter fish with the biggest being about 27lb. we kept the boilies goin in all year even through the winter aprroximately 400 kilos when fishing comenced it made the fishing more difficult asw the fish had put on that much weight they could take it or leave it. with most fish going over 20lb and alot goin high twenties with four or five goin over thirty in just 10 months with one fish putting on 13lb . what was more interesting was that all the old scars were healed one that was blind in one eye for years was all clear and even one with a hole in the dorsal had closed over. i have since unfortanately dropped my ticket to concentrate elswhere and i here that since the boilies have stopped goin in and being replaced with inferia particles and pellets the fish are slowly but surely dropping back down in weight i just hope not too much.

Maybe the fact that bait was going in and no-one was fishing gave the fish more confidence and they fed longer and harder, the fish became less cautious

Syndicate I am fishing at the moment has a very low membership and the owner likes to keep pressure to a minimum. The weight gains are impressive to say the least and the fish are all in top condition. Boilies are not the main food source by a long way but still catch fish, I think the lack of pressure is the key here.

[Deano]

Originally Posted by kevw

Maybe the fact that bait was going in and no-one was fishing gave the fish more confidence and they fed longer and harder, the fish became less cautious

Syndicate I am fishing at the moment has a very low membership and the owner likes to keep pressure to a minimum. The weight gains are impressive to say the least and the fish are all in top condition. Boilies are not the main food source by a long way but still catch fish, I think the lack of pressure is the key here.

Certainly less stress related to capture and just angler presence will do the fish some good Kev I agree.But the water I mentioned had hardly any angler pressure, less bait and the fish declined as a result I reckon.
Do you know how much bait goes into your syndi lake or can you only say what you see going in.. Theres no doubt about it low stocked rich waters can still produce big well conditioned fish but it doesnt harm giving them a helping hand does it??
Old fish need all the help they can get and lots of big target fish are often old fish...

[kevw]

Originally Posted by Deano

Certainly less stress related to capture and just angler presence will do the fish some good Kev I agree.But the water I mentioned had hardly any angler pressure, less bait and the fish declined as a result I reckon.
Do you know how much bait goes into your syndi lake or can you only say what you see going in.. Theres no doubt about it low stocked rich waters can still produce big well conditioned fish but it doesnt harm giving them a helping hand does it??
Old fish need all the help they can get and lots of big target fish are often old fish...

It is a rich water, relatively low stock and small carp get removed when caught to encourage the big ones to get bigger
Don't believe a lot of bait goes in as there is rarely more than two anglers on, I have fished weekends alone and often in the week there is no-one on

[Deano]

Originally Posted by kevw

It is a rich water, relatively low stock and small carp get removed when caught to encourage the big ones to get bigger
Don't believe a lot of bait goes in as there is rarely more than two anglers on, I have fished weekends alone and often in the week there is no-one on

are there any places going for next year...

[scotty]

Originally Posted by kevw

Maybe the fact that bait was going in and no-one was fishing gave the fish more confidence and they fed longer and harder, the fish became less cautious

Syndicate I am fishing at the moment has a very low membership and the owner likes to keep pressure to a minimum. The weight gains are impressive to say the least and the fish are all in top condition. Boilies are not the main food source by a long way but still catch fish, I think the lack of pressure is the key here.

we have closed the water on numours occaisions in the past and tried the pellet & particle approach but to be honest it didn't really make much difference to the weights or the conditions. alot of it came down to cost with certain members not wanting to pay for that quantity of boilies so this time i wanted to see just as much for myself as everyone else what effect just boilies would have so i supplied all the boilies for free and even i was quite blown away with the results. it does come down to individual preferences with diferent baits and good luck to silver birch he seems to catch a few so he does 'nt do too bad.

[kevw]

Originally Posted by scotty

we have closed the water on numours occaisions in the past and tried the pellet & particle approach but to be honest it didn't really make much difference to the weights or the conditions. alot of it came down to cost with certain members not wanting to pay for that quantity of boilies so this time i wanted to see just as much for myself as everyone else what effect just boilies would have so i supplied all the boilies for free and even i was quite blown away with the results. it does come down to individual preferences with diferent baits and good luck to silver birch he seems to catch a few so he does 'nt do too bad.

A good boilie must be better for the fish than pellets and particles, is strange when cost is an issue with bait or feed so fair play for biting the bullet and giving them what they want

Always makes me think of an Indian meal, put a chicken, lamb or beef curry in front of anyone and it's only rice that gets left